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The following is a reply I left on a blog ” thereisnodebt ” who is not only advocating MPE, but the administrator of that blog appears to be that impressed with my words in relation to the very title of his blog ( which is the very reason why I wrote what I did ) he made a separate post relaying my reply to his readers , nevertheless I think its worth re-posting here once again on my blog & I thank the admin for his due diligence.
It is true there is no debt owed to any bank, however this is not to infer there is no debt we have between ourselves for this otherwise unexploited debt is merely an exchange of our labour & production, redeeming money for property, where there are no loans or borrowing.
The key to comprehending true debt is to know what money actually is, what it truly represents & how its truly created. Money is therefore a debt instrument, not a debt itself, simply because the exchange or the act of redeeming money for property & or services is the only true debt, money is therefore a record of entitlement that one may receive on the exchange or trans/action that merely evidences what value we have given up to each other, thereafter upon fulfillment of a debt or trans/action money is most certainly not a debt but a record of earned entitlement that can be spent elsewhere in the course of redeeming another’s production & finally money is created by our promissory obligations we have to each other, which is only a promise to pay an otherwise *unexploited obligation*, with one’s own *labour and production*, for what one consumes of another’s *labour and production*… where again, there are no loans, no borrowing, & only as a result, likewise is there no interest.
It is true there has never been any lending or borrowing since the conception of banking so why would you or I propose anything else but to rectify today’s falsified debt ( falsified debt = theft ) that merely pretends to loan money, into what a debt aught to rightly be?
Most people fail to even comprehend the only real intrinsic value is what money actually represents, evidences & records upon the exchange, promissory obligation ( money creation ) inclusive, that’s in short the value of the labour & production we give up to each other, which is logically a principal debt where there are no loans or borrowing.
However I must stress, ever since the conception of banking, all banks, no exceptions, have falsified this otherwise unexploited debt to themselves by unjust intervention on the exchange, contract / promissory obligation, pretending ,then, to risk or give up value of their own in the exchange, contract / promissory obligation. either in banks publication, purported creation of money, or any purported loan the bank may impose on one of us as a result.
So to conclude what I have written here is to not infer there is no debt because there actually is a debt between ourselves, & to deny this debt is to deny a theft due to the banks unjust intervention or purposed obfuscation of our promissory obligations we have to each other, which in turn allows banks / money changers to steal the true value of what is given up in the otherwise unexploited debt ” X2 ” because of unwarranted interest only as if the bank risked or gave up consideration of value of their own in the exchange, so it would be even incorrect to assume one is not paying interest if they haven’t a falsified debt or purported loan from a bank simply because all the principal & interest all industry & commerce pays to banks is logically passed on to the consumer in the resulting price of goods & services, thus the added cost of interest above the initial cost of principal is the very cause of most if not all price inflation today, artificial in nature, since the very conception of banking, giving one only the illusion rising prices means rising value when the true value of all money & property or the value of our labour & production we give up to each other in any exchange or trans/action is being stolen by banking only to be borrowed back as perpetual re-inflation or irreversible multiplications of artificial debt, federal /state debt, so its physically possible for at least some of us to earn principal & interest out of a circulation consisting of some remaining principal at most to actually service the former sum of artificial debt, until such time, upon terminal cycles of dispossession everyone will be dispossessed of all their property & wealth one by one in the very end, & believe it or not all this is simply done by a bank pretending to loan value it neither risks or gives up in any exchange or in an otherwise unexploited debt.
Advocate / mentor, Co-founder, Co-director – Mathematically Perfected Economy™
I hope after reading this some of you might want to read my other blog post ” Refuting , Paul Grignon author of Money as Debt ” where its clear Paul wants preserve the LIE we not only borrow money from ” faux creditors” EG: BANKS , but likewise proposing the same crime of theft or further obfuscation of our promissory obligations ( the banks first crime ) in his purported solution, which is nothing but a plagiarism & distortion of MPE in an attempt to preserve exploitation , or the LIE we borrow money from a purported creditor, apposed to any true creditor who most certainly does not lend money , but rather paid in full for giving up commensurable value resulting from the outset of an obligor’s promissory obligation ( money creation )
I have been trying to wrap my mind around this whole money economy because of the fact that if my hunches are correct, then by converting my labour into money I am breaching my own faith….the problem I am having is that every single blog/author that tackles the debates on what money really is never seem to use sources of actual facts but rather rely on their own interpretations of the information available…
I searched out how a Muslim obtains finance to purchase a house/car because I noticed their scriptures strictly forbids usury, which means if the average westerner who borrows for houses/cars/ etc, became a muslim they would immediately be breaching their faith…as it turns out, Banks accomodate for muslims by other means, such as profit sharing (but unfortunately it doesnt stop the inflation of money – so it makes no real difference in the end)..
So my problem is I need to find a way, a way in which the facts I used could be presented in a Court of Law, that PROVES beyond any doubt that the conversion of my labour into ‘legal money’ (whther physical of electronic) is a breach of the bible which says, I shall not borrow, nor pledge somethingh which i cant afford to lose…and so not just individually, but also aren’t our states and nations borrowing on our behalf to fuind deficits? Again, a breach of my faith…wheres the facts?
If I may first address the Muslim banks which is something that can be found in the menu under the heading ” the lies of economy ”
Muslim banks still obfuscate our promissory obligations or contracts with each other & then charge unearned profit , call it what you want riba , rent , interest whatever.
There are basically 2 ways the Islamic bank makes a profit Mushaarakah (Profit Sharing): This is an arrangement where a depositor invests their money, & the bank seeks out projects to invests in. The unearned profits are shared between the depositor & the bank, however the process which purportedly invests the investors money can be by Ijaarah Muntahiya bittamleek (rental with eventual ownership): where the bank obfuscates the alleged borrowers or renters contract much like the western banks do today when they obfuscate our promissory obligations we have to each other ( money creation ) , the Islamic bank then uses the money the alleged borrower or renter creates to buy the property giving up no consideration of their own commensurable to the falsified debt they impose on the borrower or renter which is every banks * first crime * ( no exceptions ) only then pretending to loan the principal only as if it was theirs or the investors to loan out in the beginning , in the case of Islamic banks they are claiming they are renting the property much like a hire purchase agreement . Over time, the purported borrower or renter pays the bank more than the original purchase price or more than the principal that purchased the property which is riba , or interest, usury basically. Sadly many Muslims confuse earned profit with unearned profit & they are greatly mistaken wrongly thinking the profit the Islamic bank makes on investments is legitimately earned profit rather than unearned profit , riba or usury .
Logic also tells us if we look at the sum total of all the accounts in the red in any nation that are servicing a debt compared to all the accounts in the green purportedly investing depositors money we see a rather a big discrepancy? , simply putting it folks if the total sum of debt is bigger than the total sum of deposits it proves with logic alone the Islamic banks ( likewise western banks ) can’t be investing all depositors money ( mathematically impossible ) rather the banks ( no exceptions ) are stealing principal on conception charging unearned profit that depletes a general circulation that only ever consists of some remaining principal at most, where the Islamic banks are renting property to an alleged borrower with eventual ownership which is a purposed obfuscation of money creation itself & a theft of vital circulation regardless.
Further evidence that suggests Islamic banking are taking or stealing unearned profit from a pool of wealth is price inflation which is caused by an adverse volumetric disposition by unwarranted interest. There is no such thing as a 100% interest free Muslim bank because if there was they could not exist period.
As for searching for a document thats irrefutable in court of law I suggest you read & sign the United people mandate , however there are further documents currently used in testing the banks in regrades to court actions which all reference to the mandate itself.
I do suggest you study MPE using the menu here as your guide, however I’m happy to answer any questions of uncertainty you may have regardless , but I do suggest you read the entirety of this blog to make it easier for both of us , that being yourself first comprehending the inherent faults in the lie of economy we all live today , so its possible then to comprehend the MPE solution , which is a thesis thats proof of singular solution by identifying the inherent faults of purported economy & prescribing the one & only solution.
The breach of the bible is simply your 8th commandment is it not? which is just about breaching all other commandants as a result, however this alone cant win a court case, we all have to unite on the entirety of MPE /ACR , those who don’t & try to win a court case not using MPES irrefutable arguments or only use a part of it, may well in turn set a adverse precedent that may be throw out of court in any further court cases, remember banking is an imposition without the assent of the people although we acquiesce to banking making us our very worst enemies ,so in short if any Christian who is not advocating MPE or taking the effort to comprehend MPE they are most certainly in self condemnation for MPE complies with not only the bible but it complies with all faith, whether its Christian , Muslim or Judaism.
The following youtube audio video might help explain further in this regard, & I can put you directly in touch with mike himself if your going to test the courts/banks with MPE, its important it has to e done the right way so it doesn’t screw it up for everyone else, so far we have the banks on back foot & they dare not test MPE in court, for now they are doing nothing in evasion & although those who have been somewhat successful haven’t yet resolved the falsified debt in court , nevertheless the banks are off their back in regards to taking their home away , however if the banks ever do go to court they will lose & they damn well know it, so for now they are refraining from perusing these particular falsified debts in court.
Thanks David…I also was able to speak to an ex-banker on the Muslim financing who supported some of what you said…it’s a joke really and quite disappointing to think they (muslims) cant see that the form has changed but not the substance of the problem…
However my issue doesn’t relate to falsified debt and I am not in any battle with any bank…my issue is the conversion of my labour into money and I need to prove with facts that by doing this I am a burden on the people, which is against all faiths and religions, and if I can prove that by ‘using’ money, I am perpetuating a burden on the people of the country, then I can demonstrate that I have the right to an alternative solution (because I have a right to my life, limbs, and the maintenance thereof), providing that any alternative solution does not breach any legal duties I have. (I know from the Currency Act 1966, that we are only under a legal obligation to use Australian currency provided for by that Act, if the contracts we engage in state that all debts and obligations are to be met by Australian currency.)
I am not sure if your MPE or your blog addresses these types of issues, and further, I dont believe that any solution (to my issue at least) is possible on a mass scale or by sweeping legislative change because it would be inequitable to prevent someone who hasn’t the opportunity to own land (which I might add is impossible to own outright) to find alternative solutions to accumulate wealth, which by the fact of not owning land leaves them only ‘money’ as a tool to accumulate wealth, which essentially means they must be able to earn interest on their money. In other words, my solution is to exist and exercise my common law rights to life and my sustenance, without having an interest in the ‘competitive world’, or put another way, without being a burden on others….
I asked myself a question not long ago ‘If someone ‘gave’ me, by gift, a piece of land, and I used no utilities whatsoever, grew my own food, and basically lived off the grid, am I still a burden on society?’, and the answer is YES…Governments are formed to protect our rights, especially to life, liberty, and the pursuit of property, and the early forms of taxes was the ‘consideration’ we provided in exchange for this protection, which in my eyes is just and right….so my next question was ‘can I provide the government any consideration (taxes for my protection) that does not burden society more?’..if I convert my labour or my property into $money (the government is hardly going to accept a crate of tomatoes or a dozen eggs as payment for taxes), the answer is NO…this is the bit I am trying to prove…that by converting my labours or the fruits of my labours into money, I am burdening the country more, because, if I am correct, all money that exists can only exist by someone or some entity going into debt…and if I can prove this, then I can prove that there is a conflict between my right to live, and my DUTIES to my family, my community, my state and country, not to burden them in exercising my right to live. But does this mean than that I have to make a conscious decision that in order to exercise my right to live without burdening others then I must refrain from any intention of profit or wealth by the accumulation of tangible property, including money?
In MILLS & ORS v SHEAHAN  South Australian Supreme Court 365 (16 October 2007) it says the following about economic gain and loss:
30. In a competitive world where one person’s economic gain is commonly another’s loss, a duty to take reasonable care to avoid causing mere economic loss to another, as distinct from physical injury to another’s personal property, may be inconsistent with community standards in relation to what is ordinarily legitimate in the pursuit of personal advantage: Bryan v Maloney at 618 affirming Jaensch v Coffey  HCA 52; (1984) 155 CLR 549; Sutherland Shire Council v Heyman  HCA 41; (1985) 157 CLR 424 at 503. McHugh J has described this as individual autonomy: Hill v Van Erp (1997) 188 CLR 159 at 211; Perre v Apand at 114-117; Woolcock Street at  where he said:
In Hill v Van Erp, I pointed out that “Anglo-Australian law has never accepted the proposition that a person owes a duty of care to another person merely because the first person knows that his or her careless act may cause economic loss to the latter person”. Speaking generally, a person owes no duty to prevent economic loss to another person even though the first person intends to cause economic loss to that other person. This particular immunity from liability reflects the common law’s concern with the autonomy of the individual and its desire to give effect to the choices of the individual by not burdening his or her freedom of action. Thus, as long as a person is legitimately protecting or pursuing his or her commercial interests, the common law does not require that person to be concerned with the effect of his or her conduct on the economic interests of other persons.
What this case tells me is that, a) if I choose to operate with the intention of profiting and accumulating wealth or tangible property (capital) then I am under no legal obligation to care if my actions bankrupt another, and isn’t this essentially how the game of monopoly operates?, and b) there must be an alternative solution or way to exist outside of a competitive society…
I will take a look at your blog but I think already that we are on different journey’s and I just happened to stumble on your site on my search of proving that money can only exist by the creation of a debt somewhere….what I did find when I studied all the history of our Banking Acts, especially the early Commonwealth Banking Acts, is that money issued was backed by a ratio of gold coins on deposit with the bank and that the ratio decreased inverse to the population increase, so it started at 25% of gold coins to money on issue, then to 15%, then to 10%, and then, it changed from just Gold coins to Gold and Sterling, and then to Govt Bonds…what I really want is just a quote from someone in the Reserve Bank that says, all money is backed by a government promise to future taxes or something similar, or that all money exists because we have pledged something other than gold…all I have so far is this
Click to access 101110.pdf
2. Benefits and Costs of Holding Gold (pg 3)
Central banks traditionally hold gold because of its ability to be used in the event of a crisis in the international financial system; it is the only reserve asset that is not a claim on some other government, international institution or bank.
So this tells me that when the Reserve Bank purchases assets in order to inject new money into the system, if its not Gold, then they purchased debt, so the money created was exchanged for debt.
I think all of us should be greatly concerned about falsified debt, for its everyone’s issue at the end of the day , because all money ever created into circulation & its represented value is stolen by banks, therefore your being robbed & don’t think for one second your not paying principal & interest to a bank even if you haven’t an alleged loan, because all the interest industry & commerce pays to thieving banks above the sum of principal is logically passed on to the consumer as an added cost in the resulting price of all goods & services, hence interest today is not only artificially inflating prices but its the primary cause of most If not all price inflation on a whole today, artificial in nature, while the true value of all money & property is being stolen right under your nose to irreversibly multiply artificial debt that’s designed to dispossess everyone’s property & wealth ,ever since the very conception of banking which is a deception that dates right back to the ancient ruse of the money changers who are the current banks of today, contrary to the common misconception or LIE that irrationally assumes banks are just printing all this money out of nothing or thin air , which is a LIE perpetrated on a monumental scale & sadly repeated endlessly today, so you never ever see the banks first core crime against us, much less its second crime of interest & as a result never ever see the very hand that steals from all of us.
The core obfuscation starts with the banks first two crimes, ( in numerical order ) which IS essentially the root cause of most if not all the worlds injustices past & present for well over a millennia now.
1) The local bank steals a sum of principal an alleged borrower creates by purposefully obfuscating or misrepresenting the alleged borrowers promissory obligation, before the banking book entry, pretending, then, to loan principal value to the alleged borrower, only as if it was the banks principal value to loan out in the beginning, which is indeed a falsified debt .
2) As a result of the banks first crime the bank, then, steals a further sum of principal, which is often a sum of 2X the principal in total by charging unwarranted interest on what is a falsified debt ( falsified debt = THEFT ) only as if the bank gave up or risked consideration of value of its own commensurable or equal to the alleged loan or debt it clearly falsifies to itself.
Those who think they achieved prosperity or success in life , no matter how modest, with out first taking into consideration of all those who have suffered only as a result of another’s success NEED TO THINK AGAIN, indeed the successful today would not be successful in life at all really if it wasn’t for all those who have lost everything through no real fault of their own, due to terminal exploitation, which includes homeless children , truth of the matter due to this ignorance, arrogance, greed or lack of empathy for others who have suffered only so another can succeed will only result in everyone losing everything in the end, essentially just by exchanging bank money for goods & services your serving mammon, for every exchange multiplies artificial indebtedness that disposes some one of their property & wealth through no fault of their own , & the only reason you have money in your bank is the result of political betrayers re-borrowing the same money back over & over as national debt & spending it , so you ,but not everyone, can go out & earn it again only to pay it to bank on falsified debt , either in a pretend loan from the bank or just spending it , even if you consume what is originally paid with money in a barter exchange for example your still partaking in mammon I might add , no one is sovereign so long as banking exists sadly .
Here is a video I did explaining this , the proof your looking for is MPE , its only rudimentary logic & second grade math’s at the end of the day really . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWtZBJr5McY
I might add all purported debt today is collateralerized so of course all money comes into existence through falsified debt, its common knowledge this is fact , but most fail to see its a theft in pretend loans , its through the falsified debt we personally have to banks, not government, it never ever has been through federal debt simply because our government neither risks or gives up consideration of value,, nor do banks for that matter. See MPE debate challenge
As for our purported rights , I think we have been sleeping on our rights for too long already ,& subsequently we gave them all up by our very acquiescence to banking , practicing & parting in the one world religion of banking/anti-Christ that dispossess another so you can take a gain no matter how modest , however this is not to say we cant take back our rights by uniting on MPE .
Now by simply taking into account all rights are derived from property rights the following question begs to be answered by all whom are reading..
” Do you really have any rights if the true value of all money & property is stolen on conception when a bank merely pretends to loan money, not just to you, but to anyone for that matter? “
Believe it or not there is more than enough evidence that proves there hasn’t been any lending or borrowing since the conception of banking ,so why would you or I propose anything else but to rectify today’s falsified debt, which is nothing but a theft pretending to loan money, into what a debt aught to rightly be? ,
MPE address all your issues in detail actually, including why Gold standard has never been the solution but only a means to steal gold reserves , so MPE indeed solves your issues in the mandate, only we all have to unite on MPE don’t we now to bring it into effect ,which is unity on that mandate at the end of the day , it’s a legal document that will be used by all someday , however as I suggested in my last reply you have to do some study here , on my blog first, before I can help you further with results , its all here , only you have to apply yourself ,not only helping yourself, but likewise helping me help you further , I mean most if not all of what I have written so far can be found on this blog hey .
Thank you for this great post and awesome works!
Your Welcome 🙂