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#SHOW COMMENTS
The question we have to ask ourselves is how old is the land we were born on likewise how can we then put a depreciating price on land ?
The only way land can fit in with MPEs 1.1.1 ratio equation is if it comes for free or if we so decide to put a price on land it doesn’t appreciate or go up in price as such.
Upon implementation of MPE if we do decide to pay for land we are not being cheated when we sell our land and house, we are being paid for the land we financed in the price of the house to begin with minus our consumption, however a further question we may ask ourselves, do we carry on the prior imposition or banking crime forever that artificially inflated prices due to the unwarranted interest imposed on a falsified debt to begin with ” or ” do we grow up ?
We also all have to consider if we were to deny ourselves land possession it would not be fair for those who have already worked hard for the land they already possess and likewise those who have legitimately paid for land such as farmers who have had their livelihood passed down through generations, including the original sovereign indigenous people who have been the care takers or guardians of the land for generations for hundreds if not thousands of years so land rights are everyone’s sovereign right.
However Land prices today are over inflated simply due to a purposed banking obfuscation of our very own promissory obligations we have to one another , where the imposed interest we all pay on our own falsified debts to the bank artificially inflates all property including the land and housing thus we are always chasing not only the principal we originally paid but the interest also ,which is often in total 2x the principal which multiplies falsified debt into terminal sums of falsified debt where we will be dispossessed of all our property and wealth in the end regardless .
Land *changes*. It is not consumed. It is not rightly claimed to be owned — even if we “paid” someone “for it” — for the original creditor paid nothing and the creator never took a penny or meant to deny us full/free usage.
It is as if I declared today (being “a smart guy” [exploiter]) that I own the air; and I mean to charge all of you for it.
If I later sell that right (short), so what?
Does the person I “sell” it to have the right to charge you for it?
Absolutely not.
So let me own the water; and the space around the earth; and the cosmos; and I am only an exploiter; and whoever “buys” from me is a damn fool.
Until mankind can physically produce a planet in the solar system mankind can not rightfully claim ownership of the land they presently walk upon. Land rights is therefore not about ownership of land, its about rightful possession of land free from exploitation.
Alright. So perhaps we have all been fools. Now, how do we get our affairs back in order?
I paid $30,000 for this ” lot.” And it would cost say (just by chance) about $30,000 to clean the lot up to a pristine state, or to a state prior to subsequent construction. This is what we have to work out.
We’re going to consider the value of the construction on the property, something like what it would cost to build today, less consumption; or alternatively, we are going to allow the present owner to revise the obligation to the original principal — in which or with which they paid for the land. Thus they’re getting paid for what they financed or by their original issuance of a promissory obligation to begin with, which did not create or issue interest into circulation?
If the society elects to do so, the subsequent owner may be required to put up a * deposit *, sufficient to restore the land to a state in which it may be used in a subsequent cycle of construction.
So, they are paying for their *use* of the land; but *not* its “ownership.”
They are providing for it to be returned to a desirable state, or the state in which it was originally found.
Note: This is not leasing or renting land off anyone, simply because any subsequent land holder pays this agreed * deposit * upon the sale, therefore the former land holder keeps the *deposit * they may have paid, unless of course you decide to pollute the land right you hold thus you may well have to forfeit all or some of your deposit upon a subsequent sale price with a respective buyer , who may well have to bare this added cost of neglect to actually clean up the land on top of their own deposit .
Please remember among the many beneficial contributing factors in a mathematically perfected economy™ . There are no banks and consequently MPE™ will refinance all debt where those who are still currently in debt who have unjustly paid unwarranted interest over the years will have all prior payments of interest contributed back toward their principal, which will pay off most of everyone’s private debt.
Moreover the only tax we pay is what we pay to use or consume public infrastructure, likewise as a part of re-inflation upon implementation on top of counting all prior payments of interest back toward principal , according to your age and current savings the appropriate money will be deposited in your account so you can retire comfortably as if you had been living in this new economy all your life . (don’t forget there will be no inflation so your money will always be worth the same as now)
Please listen to the video below.
Mathematically Perfected Economy ( What about land ? )
Australia for Mathematically Perfected Economy™ 
Your site was mentioned in “Real Currencies”. Just had a quick browse and it resonates with these Bible quotes i’ve been mulling on –
Matthew 10:8, “Freely you have received, freely give.”
Isaiah 52:3, “For thus says the Lord: “You have sold yourselves for nothing, and you shall be redeemed without money.”
Thanks.
Your Welcome Kevin 🙂
If I may expand a little further in relation to your quotes.
To comprehend MPE is to really comprehend the difference between ” earned profit ” & ” unearned profit “, what money & true credit actually is, how its created & what it truly represents, where if we are to first conclude ” unearned profit ” is logically a result of a theft or a gift we may then deduce the following.
Likewise it’s very important to comprehend *money* or *our promise’s to each other* is merely a *record of entitlement*, that evidence’s the labour & production we the people give up to each other in any exchange including any *true credit* such as *property* that’s given up in an exchange that’s value comprised of any ” earned profit ” or ” earned gain ” we may additionally give up & receive from one another in the same act or exchange, redeeming money for goods or services for example & what we pay above our cost is ” earned profit ” resulting from hard earned blood sweat & tears , keeping in mind here , any ” unearned profit ” or ” unearned gain ” such as interest is logically either the result of a theft or its a gift that money may also record & evidence regardless, correct?.
Therefore redemption without any formal record ( Eg: Promissory obligation / money creation ) or without any further representation such as published money from the very outset of our unexploited promissory obligations that may otherwise evidence just entitlement might mean without any formal record, obfuscated or otherwise ,therefore , one may have given up something for little to nothing in return, opening up the door for further exploitation, theft, ” unearned taking from another ” .
Now in MPE , labour & production is given up freely from the pool of wealth we all contribute too, without intervention or exploitation, which is also received freely further into the pool of wealth in every transaction without intervention or exploitation so another can earn another’s production free from intervention or exploitation & rightfully retire that production with their own production on their own promissory obligation, essentially contributing a like equal measure of ones own production back to a pool of wealth so as to earn & rightfully retire another’s production that one may have purchased by issuing a promissory obligation , paid & retired at the rate, or ones own choice of consumption of the related property, free from any intervention or exploitation, without any regulation whatsoever.
If you’re still scratching your head ? , well, the following quote is how I simply sum all this up.
Once one removes from their psyche the *illusion of a loan* associated with the word *debt*, one can then remove the *illusion of a bank* associated with the word *money*. Only then do the people restore their rightful ability to promise to pay an *unexploited obligation*, with one’s own *labour and production*, for what one consumes of another’s *labour and production*… where there are no loans, no borrowing, and only as a result, likewise is there no interest.
Dave
I am no wizz in technical matters but I get the gist that that the bookwork of the banks should result in a “nullity” if the exchange is value for value.
I found this site a few weeks ago and was a great help in confirming to me that the banking system is a massive deception –
Letter to FASB, IASB, IFAC Re Accounting Perversion in Bank Financial Statements 1 May 2013
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“In our opinion, the financial statements… present fairly, in all material respects, the financial position of the Company as of … , and the results of its operations and its cash flows… in accordance with generally accepted accounting principals in (the country where the report is issued).”
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when the standards are misconceived and patently false, and we know that they are.
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Demand deposits referred to by the public as “cash in bank” is recorded and reported by monetary financial institutions (MFI) in units of account by double-entry bookkeeping in a process which the MFIs call “lending ” — but which is effectively a nullity — by debiting loans receivable and crediting demand deposits.
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These so created units of account are then denominated at will in dollars, pound sterling, euros, etc., depending on the terms of the documentation or underlying promissory note, or whatever is the legal document giving rise to this type of “lending,” using whatever is the name of the currency in the jurisdiction in which it takes place, but legal tender the “demand deposits” are not.
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Banks do not have pre-existing funds in the form of legal tender to lend, except in miniscule amounts relative to the size of their loan portfolios.1 In other words, banks create demand deposits out of nothing, and it therefore remains a nothing. The malpractice continues because public accountants as auditors sanctify the aforementioned practice by “certifying” the banks’ financial statements, provoking credit expansion, moral hazard, asset bubbles, liquidity-stressed financial markets, bank runs, and eventually global financial crises……”
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Click to access Open%20letter%20accounting%20perversion.pdf
Interesting & thanks for sharing, but I do suggest you read the entirety to this blog, including the menu.
At the end of the day the banks book entry is irreverent really, but nevertheless a further obfuscation of our promissory obligations all the same . The following can be found on a blog post called the lies of economy
LIE 2 . MONEY IS FICTION, CREATED BY A BANK OUT THIN AIR OR NOTHING ?
Money is not created by a bank, its created by one of us when we sign & issue a promissory obligation or promissory note when we allegedly borrow money from a commercial bank before any banking book entry , all money is a further representation of our labour & production we have to each other or a representation of our blood sweat & tears, hardly a fiction , nothing or thin air don’t you think?
If I can prove with logic alone only the principal is created by one of us by signing & issuing a promissory obligation / note * before any banking book entry * when we ” allegedly ” borrow principal from a local bank , how can fractional multiplication thereafter ” allegedly ” multiply principal when either way here from the outset of the promissory obligation principal is only ever issued into circulation for what it is intended to represent , EG : A house for example , upon a sale or purchase of property?
Money always was & always has been a representation of our labour & production or our blood sweat & tears we give up to each other, only people illogically cant or refuse to see how the bank steals what money represents.
” Money is record of exchange & the very evidence of an exchange of our labour & production , take away , or even purposely misrepresent the record of exchange as banks do to the latter today you then open the door for exploitation or theft. To the former anyone who advocates a moneyless system of exchange or a total eradication of money is therefore irrationally assuming mankind is already perfect & honest in every respect with each other by ignorantly believing a record of exchange is not even necessary or on the other hand they maybe indeed suggesting to open up the door for further theft & exploitation by a total removal of any record of exchange all together only to irrationally solve a purposed exploitation of all money & property before mankind has or ever will reach that distant dream of perfection & all honesty“
Now to actually say or infer money is a fiction made from thin air or nothing is to likewise say your blood sweat and tears you give up & receive from one another is also thin air or nothing, which amounts to sticking a needle in your eye & then saying the needle is a fiction made of thin air or nothing?, indeed this line of incoherence or lack of intellect is a failure of rudimentary logic ?
” The term * Money created from thin air or nothing * or something similar, repeated today is one of many terms used on purpose by bankers , politicians & media alike to keep everyone in check, in what is a state of permanent delusion, confusion, or for a better term * indoctrinated * with LIES , consequently then the lies are repeated over & over propagated further on mass only to be on sold as so called truth again by a plethora of 11th hour pretenders & charlatans who people clearly still follow in blind faith without even question sadly, as a result man & woman alike who appear to be their own worst enemy may never ever see the banks slight of hand that steals from us all today until its too late & we are dispossessed of all our property & wealth “
And the following can be found on blog post called Testimony of a banker
Modern Money Mechanics, A Workbook on Bank Reserves and Deposit Expansion, by the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago ( see Page 6, Paragraph 6 )
” What they do when they * banks/money changers * make alleged loans is to accept promissory notes or the “ alleged borrower’s ” promissory note in exchange for credits to the alleged borrower’s transaction account (s). Alleged loans / assets and deposits / liabilities both rise by the amount of the alleged loan. “
Although any banking credit is a purposed misrepresentation of true credit, which is not the money itself the bank pretends to loan , rather true credit is the property value given up in any exchange , or the intended representation or collateral, where if you foreclose on a mortgage for example a bank pretends to be the true creditor repossessing property or the house they clearly didn’t even posses in the first place , nor does the bank risk the equivalent value of that house when they allegedly create or allegedly loan money to purchase that house, only the alleged borrower does who actually creates & gives value to the money, actually its both the true creditor & the obligor, however its the obligor’s signature that actually creates the money promising their future production, then through the banks purposed obfuscation the bank steals the obligor’s production X2 , essentially stealing the value of not only 1 home ,but 2 homes because of interest only to launder this money out of circulation & loan it back into circulation as perpetual re-inflation , irreversible multiplications of artificial debt or federal debt that’s mathematically impossible to pay down of course.
These quotes too have resonated with me lately –
The General Epistle of Barnabus chapter 9 “………wherefore it is not the command of God that they should not eat these things; but Moses in the Spirit spake unto them, …….neither says he, shalt thou eat the eagle, nor the hawk, nor the kite, nor the crow; that is thou shalt not keep company with such kind of men as know not how by their labour and sweat to get themselves food; but injuriously ravish away the things of others; and watch how to lay snares for them; when at the same time they appear to live in perfect innocence………so these birds alone seek not food for themselves, but sitting idle seek how they may eat of the flesh others have provided; being destructive through their wickedness……..”
Proverbs 23:1-4, “When you sit down to eat with a ruler, look carefully at what is before you; and put a knife to your throat if you are a possessor of a soul. Do not desire his delicacies, for it is the bread of lies.
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“For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?” Matt. 16:26
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Romans 12:2, “And do not fashion yourself in accordance with this age but undergo a spiritual transformation by the renewing of your mind.”
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Matthew 16:12 “Then they knew that He did not say to take heed from the leaven of bread, but from the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” Rev.2:9 : 3:9
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Hi,
How can you just say that land will not go up in value? To some extent land prices are indeed inflated by banks issuing debt and interest, and the perpetual re-financing thereof. This is only on aspect of the price however.
A new school is built. As someone with a young family, I value this land greatly, so do many others; we wish to purchase this land. We now ask the software to monetize our future labour (interest free of course) so we can purchase the land. Some of us are capable of earning more than others, we engage in free, voluntary transactions by bidding up the price of the land until I get it.
The software must now re-value the land according to the amount of new principle issued. The holder now gains this extra money as profit. In this case, I issued 100,000 obligation for a piece of land originally valued at 50,000. Moreover, the owner of this land has paid of all his principle, however unlike say a car, the land is *still worth 50,000*.
Let me elaborate. Thus 100,000 new principle is created, and I pay him 100,000. He now has a value in balance sheet of 100,000, however, I have concurrently taken on an obligation of 100,000, so this money will still be “retired”, as it were. In MPE is not not more beneficial to invest in assets whose value is not likely to depreciate; artworks, precious stones etc. After having paid off the 100,000 I can then sell that for more, less or the same, assuming the system allows me to engage in free voluntary transactions with others. The new purchaser again takes on the new liability *which will also be retired however*.
Why is it a problem for MPE? You stated that, *the only way* land can fit with MPE is if the *price of land does not go up*.
If the software does *not allow* free, voluntary bidding for the land, then the system is dictatorial in that it is preventing people engaging in voluntary transactions with each other.
Finally, how does the MPE allocate resources effectively across the economy? Price can be used as a signal to allocate more resources as people express their preferences through price.
In a situation where voluntary transactions through price are not allowed, as well as being potentially immoral, you run into the serious problems of resource allocation across the economy.
This is covered in http://mises.org/econcalc.asp
I am aware that MPE is not communism, but the aspect of price controls (land) may be relevant. In any event I don’t see why a fixed pricing for land is required for MPE to work.
MPE is of significant interest to me, I look forward to your response.
Kind Regards
H Walters.
Great questions:
The reason I said land cant go up in value is because It doesn’t fit in with the 1.1.1 ratio or the mathematics , the software will be based on that 1.1.1 ratio which cant be violated.
The key here is to grasp the mathematics in MPE™ to see why appreciating land or property cant fit in with MPEs 1.1.1 ratio, where all remaining circulation is equal or no more than remaining property value & equal or no more than remaining debt where we pay down circulation at the rate of depreciation or consumption of the related property we purchase & most importantly its * rightfully retired * , moreover No one decides the rate of consumption or depreciation except we the people. The question most ask is how old is the land ? if we don’t consume property how can it depreciate or fit in the 1.1.1 ratio ? Logically the only way land can fit into the 1.1.1 ratio is if land doesn’t appreciate or go up in price.
Now there is no price fixing because we even decide the price or rate of depreciation or consumption of all property really where in the case of land we negotiate with each other what that land is worth in respect to its state where if its polluted thus we negotiate a lesser price than what it would be if it wasn’t polluted , Moreover there is nothing dictating or preventing you from giving your money away in a mathematically Perfected Economy only you cant issue a promissory obligation representing nothing of value or on something that appreciates as such because if you did it would not keep that 1.1.1 ratio equal in respect to remaining circulation (C), remaining property value (RV) & remaining debt (RO). If you did decide to give your money away or pay more than what property is worth or over its remaining value including land it has to come out of your own pocket or earned savings / profit not by issuing a promissory obligation.
If your not using the representation / money but in possession of it such as earned profit or savings its then merely a record of a prior exchange or former debt that evidences what someone has given up & likewise received giving up their own labor & production to another which is a true representation of wealth, ultimately backed by the liquidity of the property or property value given up in the creation of money ( promissory obligation ) , but this does not necessarily mean ones earned profit or savings can represent ones own debt rather it can also represent & record ones own wealth or entitlement if they have given up their labor & production in an exchange earning that entitlement or money , consequently earned entitlement or money only becomes a debt again when its used in an exchange & only then it can circulate further to be earned & likewise retired on someone else’s unfulfilled debt or promissory obligation.
In the unlikely case someone issued a million dollar promissory obligation for a hundred thousand dollar house or land they would be left paying down a million dollars for only receiving a hundred thousand dollar home or land wouldn’t they, so it serves no purpose paying more for what something is worth however if that someone failed to pay their million dollar obligation down or died for example how can that hundred thousand dollar house be redeemed for a million dollars ? The million dollars has to be rightfully retired from circulation right ? but the house is only worth one hundred thousand dollars? It would violate the 1.1.1 ratio right? Thus there is your problem ? In MPE™ anything purchased upon issuing a promissory obligation upon newly represented property, thus issuing new money into circulation has to be fully redeemable in remaining property value (including non appreciating land) so that money can be then rightfully retired by someone else which keeps that 1.1.1 ratio equal in all respects if someone defaults champ , problem is solved as long as we pay down circulation ( principal only ) at the rate of our consumption or depreciation 🙂 . Now Collectors Items however we don’t really consume & appreciate in value so one would likewise have to pay for these things from ones very own earned savings or profit.
For example if you decided to pay $100,000 for a new $70.000 house & land package you can only issue a $70,000 promissory obligation & the remaining $30.000 has to come out of your earned savings ,however if one did pay more than what something is worth one takes the risk that one may not recover what they gave away for nothing in the first place .
One must distinguish that there is no unearned profit in MPE™ unless you choose to give your money or earned profit /savings away , we give up & receive an equal representation of wealth to each other upon creation which also consists of the earned profit which is a greater value upon further of our labor & production we give up & receive from each other , grater value theretofore is increased earned profit per new representation of property (NRP) we give up & receive from each other issuing new circulation always equal to the debt without banks or government representatives intervening on our business & commerce stealing from us in the process.
How MPE™ allocates resources effectively across the economy is to pay at the rate we consume property to be rightfully retired ( see the mathematics ) not found at mises dot org ?, MPE is a resourced based economy which is a monetized barter system really because resources are used to build property & wealth where the allocation of property that we build mind you will always equal in value respectively to remaining circulation & remaining debt. By retiring circulation at the rate of consumption or depreciation thus solving price inflation on a whole .
Eg : If I built a house for $70,000 in a Mathematically Perfected Economy & sell that house for $100,000 consequently that $30,000 is my ” earned profit ” which is * GREATER VALUE * where I gave up my labor & time to produce a house & what some one pays me for that house by issuing a 100 thousand dollar promissory obligation ( money creation ) thus issuing $100,000 UNEXPLOITED dollars into circulation upon the sale is always an EQUAL representation of wealth we give up to each other ,not that we give up to any publisher of money OR bank who merely pretends to loan us money risking nothing of their own . On the other hand If I live in that house & neglect that house over a 20 year period then deciding to sell that house a respective buyer can then negotiate a price with me ,if he is smart he will see the neglect & offer me 70 thousand instead of 80 thousand & if I agree the house is refinanced by the CMI at 70 thousand dollars where its WE the people who decide the rate of consumption or depreciation not the CMI , not any government regulation & most certainly not any thieving bank.
One cant brand MPE™ with any pre existing name or ” isim ” really because no nation in the history of this planet has ever had anything like MPE™. The way I describe MPE™ is to say its a true free enterprise market free of exploitation, sovereign to any nation who decides to adopt it.
I must congratulate you for your questions of assertion because if we don’t ask questions we never learn & thus repeat our mistakes don’t we.
Respect
Dave
Dave,
Many thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed reply. The examples and scenarios certainly help flesh things out. I understand the 1:1:1, I’m just running through my head various “edge cases”, as it were, to see what happens. When I have some more time, I’d like to run a few scenarios by you.
Kind Regards,
H Walters
Your welcome ,anytime Walters.
After near on 3 years of around the clock daily devotion to this subject I have addressed every single angle possible I think , you might surprise me nevertheless 🙂
Respect
Dave