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#SHOW COMMENTS
Ancient history written in the bible tells us long ago, around 33AD there was a prophet called Jesus who turned over the tables of the money changers, accusing them of transforming the Temple of God, or a house of prayer into a market place, described by Jesus at the time as a ” Den of Thieves “ who imposed a prevention of trade within the market, unless one exchanges money first. Nevertheless as a result 30 pieces of silver was raised to place a reward for the arrest of Jesus, now the bible doesn’t stipulate who put up the 30 pieces of silver, but its no doubt in my mind the 30 pieces of silver came from the money changers themselves, consequently Jesus was identified by Judas 3 days after, silver was paid, & Jesus was put to death on the cross soon after.
The ancient ruse of the money changer from early records was & still is very much alive today in the form of modern day banks who intervene in just about every market place on the earth.
The origin of money tells us For millennia, we have lived in an purposed obfuscation of the nature of our currency and money creation. The imposition of currencies linked to commodities, such as gold and silver, was born out of an exploitation of our universal right to issue promissory obligations to actual creditors who give up property. Banks came into existence to impose a currency that would overshadow the intrinsic characteristic of any preexisting form of money, allowing bankers, ‘money changers’, to intervene on our industry and commerce, seizing for itself all the money ever created into circulation.
Banks have never given up property or anything of value of their own commensurable to the debts they falsify to themselves and impose on us. Unwarranted interest is likewise imposed, only as if the bank risked something of their own, thus stealing & laundering circulation which irreversibly multiplies falsified debt into terminal sums of falsified debt .
Sadly today, since the conception of the internet, we now have a plethora of 11th hour pretenders advocating various interest free monetary solutions, which purported solutions fail to articulate why interest is the inherent fault in any monetary system, as a result, these pretenders all fail to identify why interest is imposed in the first place & therefore advocate the banks very first crime in their purported solutions.
It is therefore the ancient ruse of the money changer that these pretenders completely overlook, which MPE identifies as the very first crime a bank commits by a purposed obfuscation or purposed misrepresentation of our promissory obligations we really have to each other, before any banking book entry , when we only purport to borrow a sum of principal at any bank.
What most, if not all people evade today is the banks 1st crime, where a bank merely pretends to loan a sum of principal purporting to be the real creditor , however the real creditor in any transaction is one who actually gives up property such as a house for example.
The purported borrower or obligor actually creates a sum of principal by issuing a promissory note, before any banking book entry, disguised then in the form of a purported loan contract by the banks unjust intervention, imposing a purposed obfuscation upon the promissory obligation, which is a misrepresentation of a contract between a real creditor & the obligor, where both the real creditor & the obligor give up lawful consideration of value, however the bank who merely publishes a further representation ( bank money ), that evidences our promissory obligations, intervenes on the contract, which is essentially changing money, however this exchange of money is really loaning your own labour & production back to you, where the bank really gives up nothing of value except the mere cost of publishing a further representation of what both the alleged borrower & the real creditor gives up to each other.
The bank neither risks or gives up consideration of value of its own that’s commensurable or equivalent to the obligors Principal creation or equal in value to the debt it clearly falsifies to its self , imposing then, a falsified debt as a purported loan to the unsuspecting obligor or borrower , who is not even borrowing at all, rather the purported borrower has been tricked into giving up the value of two houses to a thief for only receiving the value of one house from the real creditor who actually gives up property , the bank on the other hand , or slight of hand of a thief has not only stolen the value of the house but as a result the bank commits its 2nd crime thereafter by imposing unwarranted interest on what is a falsified debt , stealing a further sum of principal again, only as if the bank gave up consideration of value of its own equivalent to the principal created for the intended representation in the first place, which is really given up by the obligor promising their future production * before any banking book entry.*
So to put it as simply as I can, the higher the interest rate, the faster money is stolen out of circulation & the lower the interest rate, the theft slows down, either way interest at any rate always shorts the circulation that’s only ever comprised of some remaining principal at most & keeps it short so the banks are always guaranteed someone or one of us will default on an alleged loan regardless.
To therefore keep these cycles of dispossession going, criminal politicians perpetually borrow back & likewise spend not only the interest but the principal also. Or rather 2 times the principal for example , that we the people originally created & paid out of circulation on all our falsified debts. Borrowed back, then, by criminal politicians ( who work for banks not the people ) as irreversible sums of national debt, over & over, again & again to perpetually re-inflate circulation as its being perpetually paid out of circulation, including further principal created by the alleged borrower upon any NEW alleged loans, which is concurrently paid out of circulation on top of any former sum of artificial debt or any former reflation , paid out again & again, over & over, on all our very own, personal, but falsified debts to all the local banks, only to have it always come back again & again, over & over as a irreversible multiplication of artificial indebtedness, which is indeed, at the end of the day, nothing more than a * monumental theft & one big money laundering racket. * , See > Banks vs MPE illustrations
To be further informed see The Parable of the Talents
No man [ woman ] can serve two masters: for either he [ she ] will hate the one, and love the other; or else he [ she ] will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Matthew 6:24
” Ignorance is the egos defense against pure fear of reality. Reality is not to be looked upon with fear rather looked upon as just information. Remember Believing Is Not Necessarily Knowing and knowing only comes from conscious observation of all information new & old.”
Please Read & sign the UNITED PEOPLES MANDATE > HERE
Essentially, what your really after is to cut out the middle man in all exchanges..the banks, the corporations, and the governments, have become the owners of the middle man realm..im not surprised really…man himself has not advanced emotionally in 6000 years, and for all the technological advances, its probably made man lazier, and hence the need for middle men to pick up the slack….i challenged a lawyers forum on what rights I would have if all mobile phone suppliers require a 24 month contract, if I didnt want to enter into such a a contract, but needed a phone for work etc…their response..tuff titties! So, corporations, including banks not only own the middle man sphere they own the way contracts are drawn up…
Since finding this blog I decided to look up any cases in Australia where someone has complained about the fact that banks create money out of thin air and the effects of this on a legal obligation to pay back the so called lender..I found several but this one highlights the important message the courts are making…
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/FCA/1992/554.html?
and they are that the Banks have a statutory right to do what they do and we as people endorse these statutes, and that as we receive a benefit (such as a house) we are then obliged to make good the promise we made, irrespective of how or where the money that converted into the benefit (the house) came from…
Then I read something you posted about the WORD…i.e. a form of Trust…maybe we need to be treating everything as a trust and not a one-sided contract…unless I deposit something such as my signature on a loan application, nothing is created, not money nor the benefit (the house), therefore it is worth taking into consideration my intentions behind that deposit…
Pomeroy in Equity Jurisprudence describes how equity views a contract, which it views as two opposing trusts…at the point of agreement to the contract (although no property has passed yet), equity views the seller as now a trustee of the item and the buyer as the beneficial real owner, and the buyer as trustee of the ‘funds’ and the seller as the beneficial real owner….yet, on the at-law side of the court, it completely ignores the beneficiary, in other words, at-law does not see trusts and beneficial owners, only equity does…
you can see this whole contract described in equity here
https://archive.org/stream/treatiseequityju00pome#page/160/mode/2up
To be honest If you go into a court claiming banks create money out of nothing you will be thrown out, if I was the Judge I would throw you out because its a lie.
Money is not created by a bank at all, much less out of nothing which is absurd , its created by one of us when we sign & issue a promissory obligation or promissory note when we allegedly borrow money from a commercial bank before any banking book entry , all money is a further representation of our labour & production we have to each other , or a representation of our blood sweat & tears, hardly a fiction , nothing or thin air don’t you think?
If I can prove with logic alone” AND I CAN ” only the principal is created by one of us by signing & issuing a promissory obligation / note * before any banking book entry * when we ” allegedly ” borrow principal from a local bank , how can fractional multiplication thereafter ” allegedly ” multiply principal when either way here from the outset of the promissory obligation principal is only ever issued into circulation for what it is intended to represent , EG : A house for example , upon a sale or purchase of property?
Money always was & always has been a representation of our labour & production or our blood sweat & tears we give up to each other, only people illogically cant or refuse to see how the bank steals what money represents.
” Money is record of exchange & the very evidence of an exchange of our labour & production , take away , or even purposely misrepresent the record of exchange as banks do to the latter today you then open the door for exploitation or theft. To the former anyone who advocates a moneyless system of exchange or a total eradication of money is therefore irrationally assuming mankind is already perfect & honest in every respect with each other by ignorantly believing a record of exchange is not even necessary or on the other hand they maybe indeed suggesting to open up the door for further theft & exploitation by a total removal of any record of exchange all together only to irrationally solve a purposed exploitation of all money & property before mankind has or ever will reach that distant dream of perfection & all honesty“
Now to actually say or infer money is a fiction made from thin air or nothing is to likewise say your blood sweat and tears you give up & receive from one another is also thin air or nothing, which amounts to sticking a needle in your eye & then saying the needle is a fiction made of thin air or nothing?, indeed this line of incoherence or lack of intellect is a failure of rudimentary logic ?
” The term * Money created from thin air or nothing * or something similar, repeated today is one of many terms used on purpose by bankers , politicians & media alike to keep everyone in check, in what is a state of permanent delusion, confusion, or for a better term * indoctrinated * with LIES , consequently then the lies are repeated over & over propagated further on mass only to be on sold as so called truth again by a plethora of 11th hour pretenders & charlatans who people clearly still follow in blind faith without even question sadly, as a result man & woman alike who appear to be their own worst enemy may never ever see the banks slight of hand that steals from us all today until its too late & we are dispossessed of all our property & wealth “
No if anyone says to me nothing is created in a purported bank loan I would point them to my Debate challenge</strong> which not only cites the contract essentials but states the following :
Therefore the debate must start with the obligors or purported borrowers promissory obligation where certain questions have to be addressed first.
1) What consideration ( value ) does the bank give up of its own upon the obligors promissory note or promissory obligation? ( Before any banking book entry )
2) How is interest created & then issued into circulation above the sum of principal to prevent circulatory deflation, upon a monumental scale, when its perpetually paid out of circulation upon all our very own personal, but private, debts to local banks?
Addressing these two simple questions establishes the true creditor who actually gives up property, gives up consideration ,likewise the obligor or purported borrower gives up their labour & production which is also deemed lawful consideration, however we have now, then, established the only entity or entities ” banks ” purposely intervene on our promissory obligations we have to each other, where banks are giving up no consideration of their own commensurable or equivalent to the falsified debt ” that ” banks ” impose on any purported borrower, thus the purported borrower or obligor is indeed the true issuer of new money ( principal only ) upon its very conception by issuing a promissory obligation & any money published thereafter, or a further representation of that promissory obligation the ” banks “ publish or prints thereafter is a purposed misrepresentation, evidencing the former contractual obligation or promissory obligation/ note the *alleged borrower* issues before any banking book entry.
Likewise having now established the bank doesn’t create money we can now determine the bank is merely pretending to loan any sum of principal only as if it was the banks principal to loan out in the beginning, consequently , then, keeping all payments, failing , then, to retire the principal, unjustly, then , as a further consequence, charging unwarranted interest, only, as if the ” banks ” risked or gave up principal consideration value of their own that would be otherwise commensurable or equal to the former contract or promissory obligation, interest I may add now, that hasn’t been created nor issued into circulation above its intended representation, EG: A house , clearly indicating any paid interest to ” banks ” above the sum of principal is perpetually depleting a general circulation that only ever consists of some remaining principal at the very most, making it mathematically impossible for everyone to pay down their * falsified debts * without a guaranteed default imposed upon an * alleged borrower * through NO fault of their own.
As a consequence of this criminal behavior by a monumental theft of vital circulation, by all banks ( no exceptions ), our political representatives are then multiplying our very own * falsified debt * into terminal sums of falsified debt by periodically borrowing further sums of national debt ( principal & interest ) that was originally paid out of a general circulation ( by one of us ) so as to perpetually re-inflate circulation over & over just enough to artificially sustain a vital circulation for all our industry & commerce, or whats left of our industry & commerce only just enough, then, so the ” banks ” can continue consolidating & dispossessing even further of our wealth public & private, on every cycle, keeping us, then, always in a state of shortage while all along we are robbed blind every Hour, every Minute & every Second of every Day.
I might conclude the promissory obligation or note the banks obfuscate is not signed by the bank , nor the true creditor who actually gives up property although the true creditor is paid in full from the outset regardless, for its the obliger or alleged borrower that signs it, who is promising their future earn-ability by creating the money for the intended representation such as house for example ,which is not only collateralized by he property or house in question but the obligor’s ( obligor means one who signes a promissory note ) future labor & production to pay so much for that property , which is merely an obligation to pay & RIGHTFULLY retire the sum of principal they created in an otherwise unexploited debt ,I mean is there a crime in paying for one house in return for receiving one house, of course not, so is this debt a bad thing, of course not, so why are banks stealing the value of a house in pretend loans artificially inflating prices to steal even more from us ?, stealing then the value in the order of two homes because of unwarranted interest , then laundering it out of circulation ,only to artificially multiply the debt in further cycles of re-inflation loaning it back to government ? , when we could eradicate interest , thus eradicating banking altogether , only then paying principal for what we consume & rightly retiring the money at our choice of consumption , no perpetual re-inflation or nation debt , no price inflation, we create the money as we need it” public or private ” much like today only its not stolen in phony loans & we rightfully retire that sum of principal as we consume of the represented property , however I’m taking you to the solution now, yet to see the solution one has to first see the inherent faults in banking, or this lie of economy we all live today.
Money is not created by a bank at all, much less of nothing which is absurd , its created by one of us when we sign & issue a promissory obligation or promissory note when we allegedly borrow money from a commercial bank before any banking book entry
Exactly…now, what are the ramifications if what it is you signed you treated as trust property?..does that not then mean that whatever proceeds have been generated from it belong to you the trust owner? A bank told me once that a signature on an application form does not constitute trust property nor form a trust based on there being no foundation in law to support such a premise..yet, our very own Sir Donald Bradman in fact did indeed place his surname and all proceeds thereof in trust for the benefit of his family…some people claim that he was only able to do this because he was protecting his reputation and/or commercial rights…but this claim itself has no foundation..everyone seems to think commerce has the superior right to everything…i really dont know why people are all tuned to this way of thinking
The promissory obligation or note is not a trust agreement, even when the banks obfuscate it falsifying the value of an otherwise unexploited debt to themselves in a pretend loan.
A contact trust agreement is not a promissory note,its not the process of money creation that nevertheless pays the true creditor ( someone who gives up property ) in full , so why are you even going there?
Although any banking credit is a purposed misrepresentation of true credit today, which is not the money itself the bank pretends to loan or create, rather, true credit is the property value given up in any exchange, or the intended representation / collateral value, apposed to the common misconception of today’s credit, wrongly assuming bank credit is the bank money. For example, where if you foreclose on a purported mortgage a bank pretends to be the true creditor, don’t they now folks, repossessing property or the house they clearly didn’t even possess in the first place, nor does the bank risk the equivalent value of that house when they allegedly create or allegedly loan money to purchase that house, only the alleged borrower or obligor does who actually creates & gives value to the money, actually its both the true creditor & the obligor who give value to all property & money, however its the obligor’s signature that actually creates & issues money, monetizing then not only the liquid equity or represented value of the house, but in turn promising the earn ability of the obligors future production that’s indeed lawful consideration of value , then, through the banks purposed obfuscation or purposed misrepresentation of our promissory obligations we really have to each other the bank steals the obligor’s production X2, essentially stealing the value of not only 1 home but often 2 homes in total because of unwarranted interest but likewise stealing the value of the true creditors production who actually gives up property by debasing or devaluing the currency by the adverse volumetric impropriety of unwarranted interest imposed on the remaining circulation ( circulatory deflation ) in turn only artificially inflating prices by charging unwarranted interest , that’s a sum of interest paid out of circulation above the sum of principal, paid out of a circulation that’s only ever comprised of some remaining principal at the very most, thus giving one only the illusion increasing prices means increasing value, only to launder all this stolen money ( including any further resulting taxation via political extortion ) out of circulation & loan it back into circulation, perpetually devaluing circulation by not only initially stealing money on our personal falsified debts in the first place but upon further cycles of re-inflation or irreversible multiplications of artificial debt, federal / state debt, which is merely artificially sustaining a however deficient circulation to always service the former sum of falsified debt so long as our surviving industry can sustain these multiplications of artificial debt, that’s of course mathematically impossible to pay down simply because your all paying interest on your personal but falsified debts to local banks, until such time in the end where everyone will be dispossessed or robbed of all their property & wealth.
I will grant you this dingo, although the promissory obligation is not a trust agreement ,they , banks must use trust accounts to hide the money when its out of circulation, before its loaned back as irreversible multiplications of artificial debt , you have to look no further than the IMF for one example , of course this is only one part of the banks money laundering process because a nations central bank or what is mere publisher plays a big role also .
See Banks vs MPE Illustrations
MPE address the volumetric improprieties in a general circulation , so in other words we look at what goes out & what comes in , now where the banks keep it after its stolen is irrelevant, because we see the same money perpetually re-inflating circulation as terminal multiplications of artificial debt regardless.
Oh, if you expend any effort or risk in an MPE, you are a fool! Why bother when you can create money simply by wishing it into existence?
You ignore things like risk, saying that if the tractor doesn’t come back, it’s theft. Well, theft is a risk. Or it might not be theft. Maybe the tractor catches fire. The point is, there IS a risk in lending an asset – sometimes it’s about bad faith, sometimes bad judgement, sometimes bad luck. Either way, there’s a risk premium in lending an asset, whether it’s cash, machinery, or your house you are lending. That’s one of the two reasosn why you charge a fee for lending (known as a hire charge in the case of machinery, rent in the case of a house, or interest in the case of cash).
I have read through all this nonsense, and really…? Here’s a simplifed version:
We can show that banks are evil because they earn money by lending money and charging interest, but not doing any work. Therefore interest is evil. And we can prove it’s unnecessary, because we have a simple model whereby people create money as it’s needed to pay for assets, and then is withdrawn again as the assets are consumed, so you see, the maths all works out. I write a promissory note for $1000 for an asset, and as it gets consumed over 10 years, the $1000 is paid down at $100 per year, without interest, so everyone is square. The arithmetic is simple: $1000=(10 x $100). There! A mathematical proof that my system works! I challenge anyone to prove that it doesn’t! You can come on my radio show and debate it – all I want is for someone to show me that it can’t work.
Puhleeeeeze!
It is clear your clutching at straws now Telaview with your preposterous assumptions, or is it circular reasoning you can neither prove, qualify or demonstrate ? see here & here & here , nevertheless money is not wished into existence or circulation today nor is it wished into existence or circulation in MPE either, now to suggest something absurd as this can only prove you sadly haven’t the intellectual capacity to even reason with rudimentary logic .
Once again, its clear your little tractor example is NOT lending the sum value of that tractor, your merely renting or hiring the services of that tractor for a fee that may cover any costs in maintaining or running your tractor including your own production which is * earned profit * NOT INTEREST, likewise depreciation applies whether you use the tractor yourself or its used by another, suggesting any unearned profit gained at the expense of consumption or depreciation is a sum of interest, whether its consumed either by you or another is nothing but absurd Telaview , indeed at the end of the day here your attempting to justify a further theft of another’s production on what that other has already consumed & already paid for in the rent or hire cost of that tractor , ( NOT LOAN ) only as if you had consumed that same value yourself , which consumed value thereafter is the possession of absolutely no one regardless, logically if you don’t get your tractor back or its damaged beyond its otherwise depreciation or consumption value as you would otherwise consume of it yourself its therefore a theft of remaining value regardless, its either a theft of its entire value or in part when tractor is subsequently returned.
In all seriousness your example is like trying to tell me the service a hire car company provides is a loan by that hire car company itself when it rents a car to an individual & providing the hire car company is not indebted to bank any earned profit a hire car company makes is likewise interest? How absurd Telaview, seriously your clear lack of reasoning is beyond all rational intellect sadly?
Its quite clear you haven’t read the entirety of this blog nor any of my replies in any depth, as for your poor attempt at a simplified version of MPE, lets address it & undress you once again for the last time shall we.
Banks are clearly dishonest , banks don’t legitimately earn any money whatsoever contrary to your contradictory, mere unqualified assumptions pertaining to an economy you only believe exists , simply because in any purported economy banks neither give up or risk commensurable consideration of their own in any purported loan to one of us to even justify any sum of interest, were any sum of unwarranted interest imposed on a falsified debt or alleged loan is a further theft of principal on top of the former theft of principal where the bank is pretending to loan a sum of principal from the get go in any purported loan.
Now If I was to ask any sane individual does this monumental crime of theft & its resulting repercussions equate to evil? I’m quite sure they would agree with me, with the exception of yourself & others like you of course, who not only advocate your very own exploitation but likewise everyone’s exploitation with what are contradictions ,unqualified assertions & lies you cant even substantiate .
There’s no mights , ifs or buts about it here Telaview, MPE categorically proves beyond any shadow of doubt that the practice of banking since it very conception whether public or private is purely a means of THEFT by merely pretending to loan a sum value that’s clearly not the banks, likewise nor is it the sum value risked or given up by any publisher for that matter.
YES, the MPE model is that simple its really beyond belief people don’t or refuse to get it, I mean I could teach the basic maths to 2nd class students & the whole thesis to secondary school students its that simple , in fact true economy is quite simple to comprehend when one can identify the unqualified assumptions & LIES in today’s purported economy that purposely points one away from the very hand that steals from them .
Now money in MPE is not just withdrawn again as assets are consumed , rather money or any further representation is first created by the obligor as a sum of principal who issues an unexploited promissory note paid then from the outset of that promissory obligation to the true creditor in full who actually gives up property then that sum of principal is subsequently earned by the obligor ( NOT BORROWER ) but the obligor & * paid down * ( NOT PAID BACK ) but * paid down * from circulation to be * rightfully retired * ( NOT STOLEN BY A BANK ONLY TO BE TAKEN BACK & LAUNDERED AGAIN IRREVERSIBLY MULTIPLYING ARTIFICIAL DEBT ) but * rightfully retired * extinguished at ones choice of consumption of the related property they purchased, paying down principal on any obligation therefore is not just withdrawn at the rate of consumption , its withdrawn & extinguished * RIGHTFULLY RETIRED * & therefor the property of absolutely NO ONE, its * NOT TAKING BACK * what is not rightfully yours Telaview, rather its * paid down * by the obligor & destroyed simply because its representation or value is already consumed value,therefore what is * RIGHTFULLY RETIRED * logically has no evidence of remaining value .
The ” proof of solution” here HOWEVER is proving & demonstrating the inherent faults in today’s lie of economy & prescribing the one & only solution that not only address’s these inherent faults but solves them using not only 2nd class mathematics but likewise methodical, elementary logic, which you clearly fail to possess Telaview ,just by reading your preposterous unqualified assertions & what is irrational circular reasoning & contradiction is the very evidence of this.
And yes debate me & you will lose within the first round simply because no one on this planet can prove & demonstrate what consideration of value a bank risks or gives up in any purported loan to us when one of us walks into a bank signing & issuing a promissory obligation * before the banks book entry *, nor can any one prove or demonstrate how any sum of interest is created & issued into circulation above the sum of principal so a purported loan can be physically paid without irreversibly multiplying artificial debt to always pay the former artificial debt?
In conclusion I can only reiterate where I have left off last time Telaview, I will not be entertaining anymore of your absurd circular reasoning attempting to justify a purposed exploitation, which I have already proven to be nothing but unqualified assumptions & lies you can neither prove or demonstrate as fact hence your irrational contradictory circular reasoning going around & around in circles like a dog chasing its tail trying desperately to justify exploitation with no avail, actually if anyone was to genuinely study this whole entire blog they would already know I have disproved all of your assumptions way before you even wrote them down here , which demonstrates not only willful blind ignorance on your behalf at the end of the day, but likewise identifies its people such as yourself who are a big part of the problem today really, not to mention your insane audacity & persistence continually testing my patience , insulting my intelligence , attacking an irrefutable truth with contradictions & lies of all things , only then attempting all along here to play me &, or the reader for a fool.
I don’t agree with your premise. I am not talking about banks, I am talking about interest. If I lend an asset to you, I would want to charge you a fee for its use. Not just for wear and tear (although that, too, must be covered), but for the opportunity cost of lending it to you rather than using it myself. If the asset were a tractor, I might use it myself, cultivating crops and earning a living from it. So if I hire it out to you, I would want to recoup my costs of maintenance and wear and tear (depreciation), and something to offset the risk that you might not return the tractor (or the cost of insurance). And I would want to recoup my own lost opportunityto generate income directly.
Money is just another asset, exchangeable for just about any other asset, so it is treated the same way – there is both a risk and an opportunity cost involved in lending it to someone else. Interest is the compensation for those.
I am not arguing that banks are good, or that banks are entitled to charge interest. Our present monetary system is broken, we agree on that. But I don’t agree that the concept of interest on loans is invalid or immoral or problematic for the economy. A loan is a voluntary trading transaction between two parties, and the terms they agree on are entirely a private matter.
Money itself is NOT an asset, its a debt instrument which is evidence of entitlement that has intended representation such as property or asset given up in an exchange or sale, apposed to hiring property which is NOT a loan that may otherwise be giving up the total value of that asset in exchange or sale.
Firstly If you lend me money at interest in MPE that makes me a fool to begin with because I can create a sum of principal without the imposition of interest , moreover you as private individual lending money to a friend or family for example would more than likely not charge any more than what you loaned unless of course you did something else for the person you lent the money so as to earn more than what you loaned , therefore you little tractor example is earned profit, NOT INTEREST or unearned profit & the only risk is if you don’t get your tractor back which makes it a theft.
Its quite clear you don’t agree that interest is unwarranted on a purported loan because not only you refuse or fail see the entirety of the banks purposed obfuscation or theft here, but as result you likewise refuse or fail to differentiate between * earned profit * & * unearned profit *.
How can any sum of interest paid as a result of any alleged investment in the bank be a profit period when the investor is getting is a mere fraction back of a monumental theft of principal & interest paid out of a general circulation that’s only ever comprised of some remaining principal at most, resulting then in irreversible multiplication of artificial debt? indeed the temporary unearned gain one may get from a purported investment in any bank is not only unsustainable but comes at the expense of a ever growing volume of others losing all their property & wealth through no real fault of their own, which includes resulting WAR always as means of perpetual re-inflation not to mention growing unemployment, broken families , homeless children & general dwindling loss of whats left of our human rights all derived from the very property rights that are being stolen from right under our very nose by banks pretending to loan us money at interest & you sir assume without a shred of proof or qualification all this is somehow valid, moral or non problematic in today’s lie of economy. WHO ARE YOU REALLY KIDDING HERE MATE? NOT ME THAT’S FOR SURE.
This entire blog including the menu proves & demonstrates today’s purported economy is lie which is a means of purposed exploitation nothing more , therefore the entirety of this blog is a proof of solution , proof meaning it articulates the inherent faults in this purported economy (an economy you only assume exists) & prescribes the one & only solution which resolves a falsified debt into what it aught to be, where there are no loans or borrowing & as a result likewise there is no interest , true economy therefore is only an obligation to pay & rightfully retire principal from circulation at the rate of consumption really, based on rudimentary logic & a second grade 1.1.1 equal math ratio, its not rocket science at all if one was to not only apply themselves but being totally honest with themselves doing what is ethically & morally right .
May I suggest you read the entirety of the menu before you make anymore unqualified assumptions , you may want to start with ” MPE debate challenge ” likewise ” The root cause of all inflation ” & ask your self the question again assuming the interest on loans is not invalid , immoral or problematic for the economy, keeping in mind banks play a part in this lie of economy today don’t they?, thus your CONTRADICTION IS NOTED.
I think we all agree that banks as they stand are too powerful and too arbitrary to fulfil a useful purpose. However, it’s a non-sequitur to assume that therefore interest is a Bad Thing. Whatever monetary system exists, money today will logically be worth more than a promise of money in the future. If I am offered a choice of $100K today or $100K in 5 years time, I’d prefer to have it today. For several reasons, such as:
1) What happens if, due to bad judgment, bad luck, or bad faith, the debtor can’t or won’t give me the $100K in 5 years? A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush for that very reason.
2) Maybe in the intervening years, I will face an emergency that makes me need the cash. Getting it as early as possible gives me the widest range of options.
3) I could use the money to buy a house, or a machine, and earn a rate of return on that money. A machine generates wealth, and over the 5 years, either I or the borrower will get the benefit. I would prefer it to be me.
The first reason is about the risk-premium of money. The higher the perceived risks of non-payment, the greater my preference for present-money versus future-money.
The last two reasons illustrate the time value of money. Money is an asset. It can be used to buy other, rent-paying, wealth-producing assets. So if I lend money to someone, I am foregoing a real revenue stream that alternative assets would produce. Why would I do that, unless the debtor (who will be employing the money now), agrees to reimburse me for my lost income?
Holders of money who decide not to spend it all, can choose to invest it, or allow someone else to invest it for them (i.e. lend it).
In the latter case, they would charge an interest rate that compensates them for their lost investment opportunity (time value), plus some addtional amount that depends on their assessment of how likely the debtor is to default (risk premium).
Indeed, if there was no such thing as interest, why should I not borrow money for *all* my needs? When it is time to pay it back, I could simply borrow more from someone else. *Earning* money would become redundant. And since there is no time-value of money, I could borrow money over 1000 years as easily and cheaply as over 6 months. Since there’s no risk premium, I could borrow money to gamble at a casino, as readily as I could borrow to start up a factory.
Interest is not only a valid component of money, it is a *necessary* component, without which there could be no meaningful loans or credit in the economy at all.
To assume interest is not a bad thing or a necessary component in this LIE of economy is to logically first prove & demonstrate what consideration of value a bank gives up ( BEFORE THE BANKS BOOK ENTRY ) that’s commensurable or equal to any alleged loan to one of us that may justify any interest to begin with & secondly you then have to prove & demonstrate how a sum of interest is created & issued into circulation above any sum of principal so that sum of interest can be physically earned & paid to a bank on top of any principal allegedly borrowed in any purported loan, likewise to assume money will be worth more in the future is to assume without proof or qualification our time ( time value ) or work magically creates interest as increased value above the sum value of any preexisting principal.
Logically you can only get increased value upon further production as *increasing volumes* of principal regardless. Earned profit therefore is * increased value* upon further production, which IS an * increasing sum / volume of principal * , however unearned profit or the unwarranted interest banks impose on what are clearly falsified debts is a * perpetual decrease in volume * below the value of its intended representation or below the * sum / volume * of remaining principal.
Because of the inherent volumetric impropriety caused by the very interest we the people pay out of circulation on our falsified debts its therefore a LIE to assume that an increasing volume of circulation exists above the cost of goods & services today & its likewise a LIE to assume a consequential multiplication of artificial debt ( perpetual re-inflation) is the very cause of price inflation in any remaining volume of circulation subject to interest, therefore logic alone can only tell us the very cause of price inflation (since the very conception of banking) is caused by the banks resulting second crime of unwarranted interest imposed on a falsified debt that indeed all industry & commerce pays to a bank which is logically then an added cost passed onto the consumer in the price of goods & services on top of any resulting sales taxes /extortion to merely service an artificial debt ( federal debt ) that’s mathematically impossible to pay down so long as we are paying any sum of interest on our personal but falsified debt, concluding then price inflation is almost entirely artificial which is a further theft contrary to the LIE taught in all economic schools & universities that merely assumes without any proof or qualification that increasing prices means increasing value , NOT SO LONG AS THAT VALUE IS STOLEN X2 ON OUR VERY OWN PERSONAL BUT FALSIFIED DEBTS TO ALL THE LOCAL BANKS.
Money is MOST CERTAINLY NOT created out of thin air & its a LIE to suggest it is , however what we the people create & give value with our hard earned blood sweat & tears ( labour & production we give up to each other ) is perpetually stolen & laundered out of circulation on all our very own personal but falsified debts , only to have it borrowed back again & again as an irreversible multiplication of artificial debt, or federal & state debt, which perpetually re-inflates circulation again & again so its physically possible for at least some of us to actually service the former sum of artificial debt that’s indeed mathematically impossible to pay down here, resulting then in a perpetually increasing volume of people who are being dispossessed of all their property & wealth through no real fault of their own only so a perpetually decreasing volume of people can physically pay their falsified debts, where by an already evidential mathematical certainty we all, YES ALL OF US including millionaires & billionaires, one by one, will lose all our property & wealth in the end regardless.
You ask the questions :
1)What happens if, due to bad judgment, bad luck, or bad faith, the debtor can’t or won’t give me the $100K in 5 years? A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush for that very reason.
Answer :
All promissory obligations in MPE are fully collateralized for the remaining value or remaining consumption left of represented property likewise the true creditor ( someone who actually gives up property) is paid in full from the outset of an obligors promissory obligation free from exploitation of course. SEE THE MATHEMATICS
2)Maybe in the intervening years, I will face an emergency that makes me need the cash. Getting it as early as possible gives me the widest range of options.
Answer :
In MPE we do have a publisher who most certainly doesn’t intervene on the obligors promissory obligation pretending to loan the value that’s clearly not theirs .
3) I could use the money to buy a house, or a machine, and earn a rate of return on that money. A machine generates wealth, and over the 5 years, either I or the borrower will get the benefit. I would prefer it to be me.
Answer:
As a true creditor for example what your paid from the outset of another’s promissory obligation is principal only, which may include any earned profit that’s most certainly not unearned profit OR any sum of interest but rather earned profit where you actually did something productive to gain that profit . There are no loans or borrowing in MPE simply because its we the people who give up the only value , not any publisher or bank , the obligation in MPE is to therefore earn & pay down ( NOT PAYBACK ) principal from a general circulation to have it rightfully retired equal to remaining consumption left on represented property which in effect is solving inflation & deflation .
The following is a simple rudimentary Example proving MPE most certainly does not ignore time value, actually this example proves with logic alone “time value” has nothing to do with interest because unwarranted interest today is not only a further theft of principal but a direct result or consequence of a former theft of principal which is the very process that devalues any volume of currency concurrently then artificially inflating prices at the same time giving one only the illusion or tricking one into actually believing that increasing prices must mean increasing value, more the fool who falls for this slight of hand by a bank when the banks are really stealing the value of 2 homes when a purported borrower receives the value of 1 home off a true creditor who actually gives up property where even the true creditor is likewise robbed ignorantly failing to see the very bank money they receive in the exchange is debased due to banks pretending to loan money into circulation.
Example:
Now If I built a brand new house from the ground up at a cost of $70,000 in a Mathematically Perfected Economy™ with an estimated lifespan of 100 years ( which is no different to what current insurance companies do today estimating the price of anything really, only exception is when we actually look at MPEs obligatory schedule of payment we clearly see all property we consume, even a house depreciates at a rate we consume it much like everything else we consume just like today ) & I then decide to sell that brand new house for $100,000 consequently then that $30,000 excess on top of my cost is my * Earned Profit * which is * GREATER VALUE * that is most certainly NOT INTEREST but * Earned Profit * as a result where I gave up my labour /work & time to produce that house & what some one pays me for that house ( principal only ) by issuing a $100,000 promissory obligation ( money creation ) thus issuing 100,000 UNEXPLOITED DOLLARS into circulation upon the sale indirectly or directly is always an EQUAL representation of wealth we give up to each other, not that we give up to any publisher of money OR thieving bank who merely pretends to loan us money risking nothing of their own . Now on the other hand If I live in that house & neglect that house over a 20 year period of consumption then deciding to sell that house a respective buyer can then negotiate a price with me, if that buyer is smart they will see the neglect & offer me $70.000 instead of $80,000, & if I agree the house is refinanced by the CMI at $70,000 . Another likely scenario therefore if I add a NEW room on that house after 20 years of consumption, I may negotiate a value of $90,000 with a respective buyer & if the buyer agrees the house is refinanced by the CMI at $90,000, likewise if I add a second floor to my house I can even negotiate a value of $180,000 that’s indeed above any prior value, where its clearly ALWAYS WE THE PEOPLE WHO DECIDE THE VALUE OR THE RATE OF DEPRECIATION OR CONSUMPTION from the ground floor up when we produce anything in MPE™ really, in what will be a TRUE free enterprise market free of exploitation.